rest well, and dream of large women

Right, Due South, another fandom I didn't list. Argh, it's so annoying that polls are uneditable. But I'm glad you filled it out, wheee!

*dances with you*

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It was prompted by said HP fic of the tearing heart variety, but I've had other experiences with character death warnings or the lack thereof and I was very curious as to how other people feel about such things.

I can't believe I forgot to list Smallville! Mmmm, Clex.

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moosesal.livejournal.com

Hey, no worries. I don't expect you to know everybody's fandoms. You put together a pretty good list though.

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ponders-life.livejournal.com

I definitely want to be warned about the death of a major character. I use the warning as a time-saver; when I see the warning, I don't read the fic unless it's been rec'd by people whose tastes cooincide with mine.

Since I mostly read BtVS/AtS slash, a warning of character death usually means vamp!Xander, which I don't enjoy reading. There are always exceptions, of course; the character death could refer to a peaceful death after a long and productive life -- but really, how often does that happen? :)

My reading time is so limited, especially lately, and I'd rather spend my time reading fic that doesn't leave me feeling heartbroken.

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I've written and read fic where had it been said in the beginning what was going to happen it would have ruined the effect of the incident. I once wrote a fic where it was implied the whole time that someone was dead but then he wasn't. It can also work the other way around. Like a play with words, a juggle with emotions. Knowing in advance would totally ruin the element of surprise. Think about movies like The Sixth Sense, The Piano or The Crying Game. Would you really have wanted a warning in the beginning of what was going to happen? For me, if it says dark I'm prepared for anything: rape, abuse of other kind even murder or suicide.

Well, that is my very humble opinion.

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ponders-life.livejournal.com

You make an excellent point; I understand why a writer wouldn't want to post a warning about a character death. As a reader, I still want to avoid getting my heart broken, so I guess I'll have to avoid dark fics entirely and just stick to h/c fics when I want a good cry.

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Couple things

1)

emmagrant01 had an interesting rant/discussion about character death warnings in her journal not too long ago. I can't be arsed to go find the link but she doesn't post too terribly often so you can probably find it. Her stance is that character death warnings (and other warnings) can be considered spoilers. To which I say, um, yeah but it's not like a movie or a book with trailers and dust jackets. The header info is all a reader has to decide whether to read a fic or not. Therefore a reader needs to know the primary squickables - like character death before they decide to click.

2) Very well put together poll

3) I chose other on the question regarding "dark fic = character death". A lot of people use dark fic to cover such a big blanket of thigns that I think it's impossible to jsut assume the above. I would never assume that, although I probably would have a little inner debate with myself, to click or not to click, and I have that on "dark fic" regardless. However, I 95 percent of the time will NOT click on a fic that has "character death" in the warnings unless I know the author or have some other really compelling reason to read it. That HP fic that everyone's been talking about, I have steadfastly not read, despite the fact it's been recc'd up and down and side ways.

4) I'm not saying that every fic has to be shiny happy joy joy cuteness, but for my money, my life is complicated and depressing enough. I'm on here and in fandom for stress relief, for an escape. I don't need to get sadder based on something I read.

*snugs* Thanks for doing the poll though, good job.

And I wibbled slightly on what fandom to choose before picking HP, omg!

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I feel much the same way, but it's fascinating to me to see some of the responses to this poll, which I hope wasn't skewed too much based on my own preferences. Some folks are really adamant about NOT knowing, and I can totally see their point. The topic really fascinates me.

Thanks for responding! *hugs*

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OMG your icon! *thud*

What was I going to say? Oh yes, first, I will definitely dig up that discussion you mention in #1, as I am totally obsessed with this subject right now. Also, your point in #3 about the dark-fic = character death assumption is really interesting--how you don't make the same 95% avoidance choice when something is labeled "dark" as you do when there's a specific death warning.

I really appreciate the fact that you responded so thoughtfully, and also that you felt the poll was well-done. I wasn't sure when I was creating it that my own bias wasn't glaringly obvious, or that I hadn't missed some very significant point. Both of which are still possible, but at least most folks seem to think it covered the salient issues.

*hugs*

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entrenous88.livejournal.com

Let me see if I can hit all of the reasons I said "other" or gave seemingly contradictory comments. :)

Advance warning for major character death -- to me that means a major character in the fandom. But to other authors that means a major character in the story. So, you know, Giles = major, but I read a fic in which Giles died in the first few paragraphs in a violent way, and there was no warning because he wasn't central to the fic. So that's dicey. That explains my "makes me more inclined" to read when there has been a warning, because I think if someone has warned me, I can prepare in advance for upsetting outcomes, and forge ahead. On the other hand, the writer might only warn for, say, Wesley dying in an Angel/Wes story because he's part of the main pairing, and say "major character death" but if I think they're likely to kill off Gunn as well just as part of the storyline I might hesitate.

Weirdly, I want to reward warnings. I appreciate the warnings. So I'm more inclined generally to take a chance on a fic that has them than not.

With a "dark" warning, I assume anything is fair game, and wouldn't be upset about not being warned for character deaths there in general. By the way, there's not enough dark fic (because when it ends happily, to my mind it's angst). Just sayin'.

Death warnings and the author's prerogative -- that's a tough one, because some archives require it, some archives refuse to even reveal pairing or anything other than a quick summary. So that may be beyond the author's control. But generally, no, I think it's a courtesy, but not something required. I appreciate the courtesy, but...yeah. Not a must-have.

I read an Angel/Xander once in which Xander died horribly! horribly at the end, just when he and Angel had worked things out! OH MY GOD! I still haven't recovered. Even though the fic wasn't that great, I remember it, because of the trauma.

Also, I love gen and slash, and definitely read het -- that seems like it should be a ticky box question instead of an omg, choose one! question. But that's my pov. :P

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I agree with PL, you do make an excellent point about how knowing the ending can significantly change your experience of the story, whether it be fic or another media. This is exactly why I wanted to ask people, because I have been wrestling with the same concern based on my reaction to an unexpected character death in a fic I read a few weeks ago. Such a fascinating scope of responses--thank you so much for taking the poll, I really appreciate it!

*hugs*

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darkhavens.livejournal.com

I'm a dedicated S/X shipper and I hate reading fics that kill off one or more of my boys without warning me first. They can kill off any other character willynilly, I don't really care, but if they're planning on killing one of the main couple then there should warnings, people! If only so I can line up the required schmoop to cheer me up after the crying and wailing and tearing of hair is finally over with.

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Hee, the original manip is by a russian artist named Eneada. There are other manips of hers running about in icon form. I had to come and look what icon I used. How sad is that?

Anyway, I had some other thoughts while I was afk

Regarding the questions in your poll about does it matter who is the person dying in the fic - it does matter to me.

I mean, I'm not going to cry too much if Voldemort gets it, you know? Or Glory, or ...well I hope you see what I mean.

I think it also matters how important the character death is to the story as a whole. It's one thing to say, "Ron was killed in the war and Harry missed him every day" and then get on with the rest of the story. (not a big Ron fan, can you tell?) It's quite another to have the story completely revolve around Ron's painful death and Harry's own slipping into grief and madness as a result. You see what I mean?

I don't particularly think the first example needs a character death warning since the death is not intrinsic to the story. You could take out the death of Ron and for the most part the story would continue just the same. Those stories that deal more intensely with character death and which would not exist without it, or which deal with other than "the bad guys" or "minor characters", I'm in a gray area about.

I think it's a bit like bondage play or excessive amounts of come or cutting or things that are likely to cause massive squickage for readers. I might not squick at the 1st but have issues with both of the other two, as an example. That doesn't mean someone else may be triggered in a negative way by bondage and therefore I have a duty to warn potential readers.

As a final note, I don't read books or see movies that are likely to have content that I find disturbing so it's not like I'm holding fic or fic writers to another standard. Movies like The Grudge, Gothika, The Cell are all on my "never, ever, ever going to watch this" list. I had to walk out in the middle of a theatre showing of Silence of the Lambs on a *date* (yes that's how old I am, omg) because it disturbed me so much - as a basis of comparison. I won't read books of a certain "thriller" genre for the same reason.

The difference is, I can see the trailer of any of those movies above and many others on line and usually, the trailer is a fairly accurate diagnosis of the content of a movie. (not necessarily it's quality but it's content) I can read the back of the book, I can read reviews to get an idea of the content of said book.

The header is the only thing I have to judge whether I want to read a given fic, and sometimes a rec, depending on how thorough the rec really is.

Blah, I aparrently like the sound of my own "voice". Sorry to type your ear off.

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Weirdly, I want to reward warnings. I appreciate the warnings. So I'm more inclined generally to take a chance on a fic that has them than not

Me. Too. I so much prefer to be warned than not, and if I'm waffling over to read or not to read, at least some of the time, if all other decision makers are considered equal, the warning will make a difference.

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Think about movies like The Sixth Sense, The Piano or The Crying Game

I get what you're saying about the element of surprise.

However, when the trailers came out for the movies above, I made a choice NOT to see any of them - based on the trailer and probably from reviews as well. I didn't need spoilers to know that I didn't want to go through the emotional roller coaster those movies were probably going to put me on.

Granted, I may have missed out on some great work.

On the plus side, I didn't spend that afternoon and maybe days afterwards feeling sad and upset.

The problem with fic is - how else is a reader going to know whether she/he wants to read or not if there's no header? I get aggravated when people don't put the pairing in there sometimes. Without some kind of header and warnings, the reader has no basis to decide whether to click that cut or not.

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Been trying different versions of answering that but I'm not sure how. I guess it all comes down to perspectives and personal preference.

I guess with my fics people know what to expect. I don't post outside LJ and if I write 'Dark' they know what to expect. So headers and disclaimers and even pairings have never been anything I worry that much about. I usually just say. 'This is pretty dark, folks.' or 'A bit of schmoop for you' not even saying the pairing because they know I just write Spangel (ok, there was that Spander and a little Spiles but I digress). If it's RPS or Human AU I'll tell them that too because a few of them would rather skip it and a lot of them would like to squeee. *g*

Having said that I don't see myself writing a 15-25 chapter story and killing off Spike in the last one. Mostly because I love the boys to much to do that to them.

Think I'm just rambling here.

Anyway, yes they might make me feel sad and upset for a few days but for me it is like a book or a movie. I don't want spoilers and if the whole point of the story is the big revelation at the end having a warning would totally ruin it. I'd rather take my chances. Or I might have missed out on reading or watching fics/books/movies that have had a great impact on my life.

Makes me wonder since I can see you are in the Harry Potter fandom, would you have wanted a warning on The Order of the Phoenix?

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In general I probably would but there are these certain kind of stories which are meant to shock people or surprise them. And having a warning would ruin it. But yes, in general I would like a warning myself, I'm just saying there are incidents where it wouldn't fit.

I recently read a book which was a rather ordinary story about adultery. Until in the middle of the book it is suddenly revealed that the person telling the story is a woman not a man. And all the hot sex scenes you just read were lesbian. Now I guess in Bush's America that book would not have been sold without a warning. But in doing so it would have ruined the book completely.

Not the same but again the element of surprise.

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