poll! KFZ!

[aimeelicious]

So I've been giving a lot of thought to character death in fic, and the fic header warnings that often come with them, but sometimes don't. In the interest of fostering a dialogue on the topic, I've created a poll to gather some general information about reader preferences. This post/poll is UNLOCKED, in the hope that some of you will be willing to PIMP it in your journals and hopefully encourage others to fill it out, as I'd like as much input as possible. ETA: I do plan on doing a results post based on this poll, so please know that your responses will not just disappear into the ether.

Feel free to answer the poll anonymously if you wish, and take over my journal for discussion, just don't get nasty! This has been declared a kerfuffle-free zone (KFZ).

[Poll #450697]

ETA: Sorry for forgetting Smallville as a fandom...it's one of my faves and I left it off! Dang polls, can't edit them.

Comments

[moosesal.livejournal.com]

I'd like to note for the record that I clicked Buffy/Angel for fandom, because that's the primary that I'm writing in. But for reading, I'm primarily Due South these days. So it's a toss up. But I'm not insanely multi-fandom.

[aimeelicious]

Right, Due South, another fandom I didn't list. Argh, it's so annoying that polls are uneditable. But I'm glad you filled it out, wheee!

*dances with you*

[mahaliem.livejournal.com]

This poll is really interesting. I have to assume it was prompted by a certain HP fic that tears people's hearts out.

Most of the time, I'd like to know if a character dies. However, if there's ssupposed to be some suspense on whether or not it will happen, I'd rather not know because that would ruin the ending for me.

Also - currently Smallville is my primary fandom, with Buffy and Harry Potter being ones I'm interested in.

[aimeelicious]

It was prompted by said HP fic of the tearing heart variety, but I've had other experiences with character death warnings or the lack thereof and I was very curious as to how other people feel about such things.

I can't believe I forgot to list Smallville! Mmmm, Clex.

[ponders-life.livejournal.com]

I definitely want to be warned about the death of a major character. I use the warning as a time-saver; when I see the warning, I don't read the fic unless it's been rec'd by people whose tastes cooincide with mine.

Since I mostly read BtVS/AtS slash, a warning of character death usually means vamp!Xander, which I don't enjoy reading. There are always exceptions, of course; the character death could refer to a peaceful death after a long and productive life -- but really, how often does that happen? :)

My reading time is so limited, especially lately, and I'd rather spend my time reading fic that doesn't leave me feeling heartbroken.

[aimeelicious]

I feel much the same way, but it's fascinating to me to see some of the responses to this poll, which I hope wasn't skewed too much based on my own preferences. Some folks are really adamant about NOT knowing, and I can totally see their point. The topic really fascinates me.

Thanks for responding! *hugs*

[felisblanco.livejournal.com]

I've written and read fic where had it been said in the beginning what was going to happen it would have ruined the effect of the incident. I once wrote a fic where it was implied the whole time that someone was dead but then he wasn't. It can also work the other way around. Like a play with words, a juggle with emotions. Knowing in advance would totally ruin the element of surprise. Think about movies like The Sixth Sense, The Piano or The Crying Game. Would you really have wanted a warning in the beginning of what was going to happen? For me, if it says dark I'm prepared for anything: rape, abuse of other kind even murder or suicide.

Well, that is my very humble opinion.

[ponders-life.livejournal.com]

You make an excellent point; I understand why a writer wouldn't want to post a warning about a character death. As a reader, I still want to avoid getting my heart broken, so I guess I'll have to avoid dark fics entirely and just stick to h/c fics when I want a good cry.

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

Couple things

1) emmagrant01 had an interesting rant/discussion about character death warnings in her journal not too long ago. I can't be arsed to go find the link but she doesn't post too terribly often so you can probably find it. Her stance is that character death warnings (and other warnings) can be considered spoilers. To which I say, um, yeah but it's not like a movie or a book with trailers and dust jackets. The header info is all a reader has to decide whether to read a fic or not. Therefore a reader needs to know the primary squickables - like character death before they decide to click.

2) Very well put together poll

3) I chose other on the question regarding "dark fic = character death". A lot of people use dark fic to cover such a big blanket of thigns that I think it's impossible to jsut assume the above. I would never assume that, although I probably would have a little inner debate with myself, to click or not to click, and I have that on "dark fic" regardless. However, I 95 percent of the time will NOT click on a fic that has "character death" in the warnings unless I know the author or have some other really compelling reason to read it. That HP fic that everyone's been talking about, I have steadfastly not read, despite the fact it's been recc'd up and down and side ways.

4) I'm not saying that every fic has to be shiny happy joy joy cuteness, but for my money, my life is complicated and depressing enough. I'm on here and in fandom for stress relief, for an escape. I don't need to get sadder based on something I read.

*snugs* Thanks for doing the poll though, good job.

And I wibbled slightly on what fandom to choose before picking HP, omg!

[aimeelicious]

OMG your icon! *thud*

What was I going to say? Oh yes, first, I will definitely dig up that discussion you mention in #1, as I am totally obsessed with this subject right now. Also, your point in #3 about the dark-fic = character death assumption is really interesting--how you don't make the same 95% avoidance choice when something is labeled "dark" as you do when there's a specific death warning.

I really appreciate the fact that you responded so thoughtfully, and also that you felt the poll was well-done. I wasn't sure when I was creating it that my own bias wasn't glaringly obvious, or that I hadn't missed some very significant point. Both of which are still possible, but at least most folks seem to think it covered the salient issues.

*hugs*

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Let me see if I can hit all of the reasons I said "other" or gave seemingly contradictory comments. :)

Advance warning for major character death -- to me that means a major character in the fandom. But to other authors that means a major character in the story. So, you know, Giles = major, but I read a fic in which Giles died in the first few paragraphs in a violent way, and there was no warning because he wasn't central to the fic. So that's dicey. That explains my "makes me more inclined" to read when there has been a warning, because I think if someone has warned me, I can prepare in advance for upsetting outcomes, and forge ahead. On the other hand, the writer might only warn for, say, Wesley dying in an Angel/Wes story because he's part of the main pairing, and say "major character death" but if I think they're likely to kill off Gunn as well just as part of the storyline I might hesitate.

Weirdly, I want to reward warnings. I appreciate the warnings. So I'm more inclined generally to take a chance on a fic that has them than not.

With a "dark" warning, I assume anything is fair game, and wouldn't be upset about not being warned for character deaths there in general. By the way, there's not enough dark fic (because when it ends happily, to my mind it's angst). Just sayin'.

Death warnings and the author's prerogative -- that's a tough one, because some archives require it, some archives refuse to even reveal pairing or anything other than a quick summary. So that may be beyond the author's control. But generally, no, I think it's a courtesy, but not something required. I appreciate the courtesy, but...yeah. Not a must-have.

I read an Angel/Xander once in which Xander died horribly! horribly at the end, just when he and Angel had worked things out! OH MY GOD! I still haven't recovered. Even though the fic wasn't that great, I remember it, because of the trauma.

Also, I love gen and slash, and definitely read het -- that seems like it should be a ticky box question instead of an omg, choose one! question. But that's my pov. :P

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

Weirdly, I want to reward warnings. I appreciate the warnings. So I'm more inclined generally to take a chance on a fic that has them than not

Me. Too. I so much prefer to be warned than not, and if I'm waffling over to read or not to read, at least some of the time, if all other decision makers are considered equal, the warning will make a difference.

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

I'm a dedicated S/X shipper and I hate reading fics that kill off one or more of my boys without warning me first. They can kill off any other character willynilly, I don't really care, but if they're planning on killing one of the main couple then there should warnings, people! If only so I can line up the required schmoop to cheer me up after the crying and wailing and tearing of hair is finally over with.

[aimeelicious]

Thank you so much for participating! And your icon...hot. Wow.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

I don't think character death warnings should be required forever and ever throughout fandom (though, er, ironically I require them on my mailing list) but I'm very leery of reading things without them if there's any indication of possible darkness, and I'd certainly love it if authors *chose* to use them. (Someone did a rather neat thing in a post yesterday, where they had a link that you could click to find out if there was character death in the story or not. The link was a completely separate page, so those who opened the story without wanting to know ahead of time wouldn't be spoiled. Obviously if one *only* used that when there was character death, people would catch on quickly and it would be the same as just blatantly saying it in the header, but if it became a general practice, that would be rather nifty.

And as a BtVS-verse sidenote, I can handle vamped characters, though if they go from good to evil, I have to detach greatly from the story. Sometimes completely (meaning hitting delete), depending on how evil.

[aimeelicious]

I saw that post yesterday, with the separate link for character death warning! It's definitely a fine idea, but you're right, it would have to be used consistently whether there was a warning or not, otherwise it's mere existence would be a *dead* giveaway. Heh. I'm funny, even when I poll!

Thank you so much for participating, I really appreciate the response. =)

(ps--I tend to enjoy death=vamped stories only if said vampee hangs on to their supposed soul or is somehow not your typical eat first, ask questions later kind of bloodsucker. I like cliche, augh!)

[kahlannightwing.livejournal.com]

My main fandom is Dragonball Z.

[aimeelicious]

Thank you very much for responding to the poll! =)

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

Here via su_herald. Great poll; very interesting to see the responses and read all the comments.

I'm a multi-fandom kinda girl. In addition to the Buffyverse, my big ones that you didn't list are Highlander (where major character death in fic is commonplace, but I still expect warnings for permanent death), Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and the new and all too tiny NCIS fandom that's my latest shiny toy.

I usually avoid major character death fics because they bother me too much, but I'll make an exception for those authors that I trust and respect enough that I'll read anything they write, or when there are lots of recs from people whose opinions I value. Even then I'll wait to read these fics when I'm the right emotional state to come through it without being entirely devastated.

[aimeelicious]

Ah yes, I would imagine there would be character death warnings all around for Highlander fic if people weren't aware that it's only temporary! Aww, baby NCIS fandom! I am on the fringes of a fledgling CSI fandom myself.

Thanks so much for participating, I really appreciate it! =)

[malnpudl.livejournal.com]

Afterthought (pardon the double comment, please):

In Stargate fandom there's a convention of posting warnings after a "warning spoiler space" so that one has to scroll in order to read warnings, and thus can easily choose to avoid them. This works great for e-mail lists where the first post is the part-zero post with all the header info, and the fic itself starts in the separate part-one post. I'm not sure how this would translate to LJ or archived fics, though.

[mosca.livejournal.com]

Here via sd_herald. Hi.

My primary fandom is Firefly if it's anything, although I'm about as multifandom as they come.

I don't like being warned for character death, but I appreciate that a lot of people do. I think it's worthwhile for authors to put warnings/headers at the end of the story in these kinds of cases-- that way, people like me can go unspoiled while others can feel duly warned.

[aimeelicious]

Several people have suggested the 'end of story' location for warnings/headers, and I have to admit, I think it's a fairly simple but effective solution that's not common in the fandoms I generally follow.

Thank you very much for participating!

[booster17.livejournal.com]

Also from su_herald. Very well thought out poll, and don't worry - I didn't detect any inbalane in the questions anywhere. :D

In general, I prefer to read my fics without warnings of character death. The general header of 'dark' sorta indicates to me that things like that might occur, but I can fully understand why some people might freak out.

Most of the main character deaths in fic that I've written have occured off-screen, and only for the effect on the characters that I am writing at that point. Something like that, where it's not described beyond a few details and the character hasn't interacted that much with my main ones, I don't think deserves a character death warning.

[aimeelicious]

Love your icon...amazing how it combines two such diverse movies! Very cute. =)

And I agree with your point about major character death off-screen. There is potential semantic confusion when using the term "major", because a character that is major in the fandom may not be a major player in a story. I should have made that more clear, but it didn't even occur to me until you pointed it out. Thanks!

[claire.livejournal.com]

My primary fandom at the moment is due South - although that could change any minute. I am a total wuss when it comes to sad fic. It has to be an outstanding author before I'll read anything where one of my boys dies. Or even one that doesn't end happily ever after. Even then, it's likely that I'll just read it the once and won't be able to reread because OMG sad!!!!

[aimeelicious]

I tend to steer away from sad fic myself unless it comes highly recommended, and that's partly why I wanted to put out this poll, to get other people's views. Thanks for responding! =)

[judas-iscariot.livejournal.com]

"Do you think character death warnings should be:" I picked other because of several reasons. I personally don't care if the author mentions that there is a character death or not. After all, it's only fan fiction, and it doesn't actually happen in the book. Not to mention the fact that I'm a sucker for angst. But, at the same time, I know that a lot of people go bat shit when people die in fan fics and respect their right to be informed if it will traumatize them to see their favorite character die. *shrug* So I guess in the end it doesn't really matter what I think and it is indeed up to the author to decide.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

came over by way of the su_herald

I think a vague warning that there will be a character death is massively important in the warnings. It doesn't have to be all spelled out of who is going to die and how but, just a reference, that way the reader has a choice to decide if that is within their comfort levels. I don't think it ruins anything, if the reader is watching one of their characters die and thinks, "Oh! So this is what the header referred too." The author is doing something wrong.

For example: I had to put in a header of one of mine, "brother!kink", since a lot of people are squicked by it. But in my first chapter I do everything I can to avoid bringing that up, so that when it is revealed at the end it is a surprise. I know that a lot of people are not going to be surprised, but one person has commented that they got so wrapped up in the chapter that they did forget all about the brother angle and it was a surprise to them.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear! And I had no reason to worry that anyone reading it would have been upset about where the story went. If they read the headers, they know what they are getting, even if it isn't all the details. I treat character death the same way.

[beccaelizabeth]

When you read a story, what is your personal preference for character death warnings in fic headers?
I've found that a lot of stories will warn if one of the good guys die, but consider it just deserts if someone they think of as a bad guy dies. Being a fan of a particular bad guy I get really tired of reading fic that has him in and him just getting decapitated or burned alive or whatever. I'd like to be warned, so I could skip it until I'm in the mood. Because some days watching everyone die painfully is really the last straw. Which is the only reason I'd want death warnings in the first place.
But I wouldn't much mind if some random never named vamp lunch got killed without a death warning, so I think of it as 'only major characters', but have an unusual definition of major.

'required' headers depend on venue. On mailing lists you can always skip the part 0. In other places it isn't so easy to ignore the warnings if you don't want to be spoiled.

[wisdomeagle]

Totally contradictorally, I hate warnings for death but always include them, because fandom as a whole has a preference for them. Personally, I don't mind deathfic as a rule. I dislike badfic. I like well-written fic. I don't like spoilers and don't watch previews or read blurbs on the back of books for the same reason. But I just tend to skip the warnings/summary on fics. Not a problem. And I know other people have problems with char. death so... I warn.

[mhalachai.livejournal.com]

My fandom is Anita Blake. Anyway.

Most of the character death fics I've read weren't set up well, so the death seemed a bit contrived. A well-written one, where the death made sense, is rare, but that shock is a kick in the face, in a good way. If it's well written, I can believe it.

That said, a character death warning will usually stop my reading. If someone feels the need to tell me that, 23 chapters from now, Buffy will die, I'm less likely to make the investment of my time.

My contradictory two cents :)

[abbylee]

1. knowing in advance detracts from the overall fic experience
2. knowing in advance means I won't have a nervous breakdown when someone dies
3. Other, please explain in comments

I like knowing that there are dark parts to a fic, which may or may not include a character death (ie - 3). This means that I won't spend the entire story waiting for the death to happen (ie - 1), but also that I won't be annoyed when a seemingly shmoopy fic turns very sad (ie - 2).

As far as warnings, I think for me it depends on where I'm reading it. On LJs, I expect less detail given, as it is assumed that most readers know the author's style. On archives where I'm wading through a lot of other unknown variables, I'd prefer to be given more detail about the story that I'm choosing. In general, I'm happiest when readers can choose whether or not to see extended headers.

[witch-were.livejournal.com]

Q1.I like a character death warning. I do not need to know which character will die.
Q2. The only reason I want to know is so I can read it at an appropriate time. I do not read fics that will make me cry or upset me at certain times of the month. I get weepy enough without help then!

[monkey5s.livejournal.com]

I'm still reading hobbit stories, so LOTR, with RPS for those actors as well.

[monkey5s.livejournal.com]

Oh, and forgot to note, it's not that I believe the author MUST post warnings, I just would hope that the author realizes that, in fanfiction, stories without warnings like that will make some of us very unhappy- and possibly poison us against ever reading anything that author writes. And the one author who wrote back to me, stating that she never put warnings on her fic because she felt that it gave away plot points, struck me as being an idiot for thinking fanfiction should be held to those standards. But, as I said, I simply put her on my "never read her" list.

[ainu-laire.livejournal.com]

Lord of the Rings, dude, Lord of the Rings :D

Anyhow, I need to know if a character will die because I usually only read if there is a certain one character in the story (very few acceptions) and if he dies, well, I either get a. angry, b. depressed, c. bored, or d. all of the above. I really cannot stand my favorite character dying early (unless if a. everyone dies with him or b. it is his time in canon). If I know in advance that he is going to die, then I don't get pissed off... in fact, I usually avoid fics where my favorite character dies. I've read one or two really good ones, but otherwise, nuh uh.

[mother2012.livejournal.com]

Ditto.

Ditto.

[bungee.livejournal.com]

So, my main response to all of those questions is this: if the author handles the death in a sensitive manner, there is no need for a warning. That is to say, fictional death should be viewed as a plot device (having characters die without warning for no purpose is ludicrous), but should also be handled with care, keeping the emotions of both the reader and the other characters in mind.

I'm not sure if I'm really expressing myself clearly, but I guess my point is that I've read some really well written death!fic that left me bawling, but that I would have objected to have a warning for. On the other hand, I've read un-warned fics where a character dies BAM! out of nowhere, in which case I would have stopped reading in the first paragraph or two if I'd been warned about the death.

[miggy.livejournal.com]

Reading the comments makes me want to qualify my answer: I've only ever seen headers at the top of a story, where everyone is pretty much forced to read them. With that in mind, I gave the "I hate character death warnings!" type of answers. I strongly dislike the expectations that you must spoil your story in any way past a summary/teaser; yes, some people have things that squick them, but Tolkien didn't have to print "WARNING: Character death!" in Fellowship, nor did Silence of the Lambs trailers explicitly tell viewers that they should look out for... well, X, Y, and Z. In my view, if you know that death/suicide/cutting/abuse/etc. is a trigger for you that you simply cannot read, you can get safe recs from your friends rather than expect to have major plot points spoiled for everyone right off the bat.

However.

The idea of warnings on a different page, or below the fic completely changes my POV on this. If people could opt-in to reading what is basically the author spoiling her own story, it's... well, it's like people putting show spoilers behind a cut rather than a front page entry. It shows respect for all involved people, and everybody's happy! While I think it's a bit much to say that X character dies (doing so would have ruined Paterfamilias, for example), "Character Death" in a safely tucked-away warning is a nice compromise for all involved parties.

(Now that my idealogical rant about everyone being presented with spoilers in the form of headers is over: if I'm told a fic has character death, I'm more likely to read it. Yay, dark! If a fic tells me in headers right off the bat, I'm less likely to read it because of my strong distaste for that fandom convention. So... I am a strange and contradictory person. Basically: opt-in headers are good. Yes.)