poll! KFZ!

[aimeelicious]

So I've been giving a lot of thought to character death in fic, and the fic header warnings that often come with them, but sometimes don't. In the interest of fostering a dialogue on the topic, I've created a poll to gather some general information about reader preferences. This post/poll is UNLOCKED, in the hope that some of you will be willing to PIMP it in your journals and hopefully encourage others to fill it out, as I'd like as much input as possible. ETA: I do plan on doing a results post based on this poll, so please know that your responses will not just disappear into the ether.

Feel free to answer the poll anonymously if you wish, and take over my journal for discussion, just don't get nasty! This has been declared a kerfuffle-free zone (KFZ).

[Poll #450697]

ETA: Sorry for forgetting Smallville as a fandom...it's one of my faves and I left it off! Dang polls, can't edit them.

Comments

[booster17.livejournal.com]

Also from su_herald. Very well thought out poll, and don't worry - I didn't detect any inbalane in the questions anywhere. :D

In general, I prefer to read my fics without warnings of character death. The general header of 'dark' sorta indicates to me that things like that might occur, but I can fully understand why some people might freak out.

Most of the main character deaths in fic that I've written have occured off-screen, and only for the effect on the characters that I am writing at that point. Something like that, where it's not described beyond a few details and the character hasn't interacted that much with my main ones, I don't think deserves a character death warning.

[claire.livejournal.com]

My primary fandom at the moment is due South - although that could change any minute. I am a total wuss when it comes to sad fic. It has to be an outstanding author before I'll read anything where one of my boys dies. Or even one that doesn't end happily ever after. Even then, it's likely that I'll just read it the once and won't be able to reread because OMG sad!!!!

[aimeelicious]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. And you know, the 'fic type' question was almost a ticky box kind, but I ended up feeling like I really wanted people to pick just one. I only put the 'All' option there because I know for some folks choosing one isn't possible.

Someone else who commented mentioned that in his/her fandom (which I'm not familiar with), it's pretty common to put fic warnings, including character death, at the END of the post/chapter/fic/whatever, so people can choose to go read warnings or not. How would you feel about that as an alternative to posting it in the header?

[aimeelicious]

Thank you so much for participating! And your icon...hot. Wow.

[aimeelicious]

I saw that post yesterday, with the separate link for character death warning! It's definitely a fine idea, but you're right, it would have to be used consistently whether there was a warning or not, otherwise it's mere existence would be a *dead* giveaway. Heh. I'm funny, even when I poll!

Thank you so much for participating, I really appreciate the response. =)

(ps--I tend to enjoy death=vamped stories only if said vampee hangs on to their supposed soul or is somehow not your typical eat first, ask questions later kind of bloodsucker. I like cliche, augh!)

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

Isn't it purty? _sharvie_ made it for my birthday. :D

[aimeelicious]

Thank you very much for responding to the poll! =)

[aimeelicious]

Ah yes, I would imagine there would be character death warnings all around for Highlander fic if people weren't aware that it's only temporary! Aww, baby NCIS fandom! I am on the fringes of a fledgling CSI fandom myself.

Thanks so much for participating, I really appreciate it! =)

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

I tend to enjoy death=vamped stories only if said vampee hangs on to their supposed soul or is somehow not your typical eat first, ask questions later kind of bloodsucker. I like cliche, augh!

Oh no, me too. Basically I can only read ones where they don't hang onto their soul or stay relatively good/neutral, for kink-smut, or if it's highly, highly humorous. Anything I'm going to let myself actually connect with, it's got to be still the real character (usually Xander) in there.

[aimeelicious]

Several people have suggested the 'end of story' location for warnings/headers, and I have to admit, I think it's a fairly simple but effective solution that's not common in the fandoms I generally follow.

Thank you very much for participating!

[aimeelicious]

Love your icon...amazing how it combines two such diverse movies! Very cute. =)

And I agree with your point about major character death off-screen. There is potential semantic confusion when using the term "major", because a character that is major in the fandom may not be a major player in a story. I should have made that more clear, but it didn't even occur to me until you pointed it out. Thanks!

[aimeelicious]

I tend to steer away from sad fic myself unless it comes highly recommended, and that's partly why I wanted to put out this poll, to get other people's views. Thanks for responding! =)

[aimeelicious]

Yes, the humorous ones I can usually get through, because I love the funny! (Which you are so very talented at writing, by the way.)

Speaking of funny, I assume swmbo has seen your perverted raccoon icon? Ha!

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

*points to my actual LJ layout*

All for swmbo, baby.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

And thank you!

[aimeelicious]

I think it also matters how important the character death is to the story as a whole. It's one thing to say, "Ron was killed in the war and Harry missed him every day" and then get on with the rest of the story. (not a big Ron fan, can you tell?) It's quite another to have the story completely revolve around Ron's painful death and Harry's own slipping into grief and madness as a result. You see what I mean?

I see *exactly* what you mean, and it makes a lot of sense. I've read plenty of post-war HP fic where Harry and/or other characters mourn their losses, but it's not -current- and is more a part of the backstory that motivates the characters now. I feel no need for a warning about something like that.

Also, I hadn't considered the idea of dust jackets, reviews, trailers and the like. Now that I think about it, other than a few random times I fell over a movie on television, I don't believe I've ever intentionally watched a film that I didn't know something about ahead of time, for the same reasons I like warnings in fic. Why subject myself to entertainment that pains me?

I've loved all your comments regarding this poll, and am happy you engaged a few other responders as well, please don't apologize for participating!

*snergle*

[aimeelicious]

OMG, she must have to put on blinders to go in and read your posts! That is too much. Poor Swm. If you put a few pictures of icy sidewalk patches in there, the terror would be complete. =)

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

I guess with my fics people know what to expect. I don't post outside LJ and if I write 'Dark' they know what to expect. So headers and disclaimers and even pairings have never been anything I worry that much about. I usually just say. 'This is pretty dark, folks.' or 'A bit of schmoop for you' not even saying the pairing because they know I just write Spangel (ok, there was that Spander and a little Spiles but I digress). If it's RPS or Human AU I'll tell them that too because a few of them would rather skip it and a lot of them would like to squeee. *g*

Well, I think that sounds wonderful but I think you're also assuming that you're going to have a sense of intimacy with your readers. I don't think that's going to always be the case. What if your work is recc'd on someone else's journal? In HP we have two major news outlets and several smaller rec lists that draw people to a person's work. I've been included on rec lists both on lj and on the web that I knew nothing about until a reader said that they were there from xyz list. I'm sure you have too. So, a potential reader is not going to know you or what your pairing and/or particular squick level may be.

I've contended that we as readers tend to find writers who write at our comfort level and when readers write *g* they also write at their comfort level as regards explicitness, phrasing, squick factors, headers and whatever else we might look for in reading/writing.

I think that another thing to consider though is that *everyone* may not have the same level of comfort as regards ... let's say disturbing themes. I know we can argue that if a person knows they tend to be sensitive to certain kinds of things in fic, then they ought to just not read it - say something labeled dark. And I'd agree with you. But we both know that people are going to click either out of curiousity or to challenge themselves or who knows why. I know I've seen people flamed for something in their fic that was warned for in their header which always begs the question, wtf were they doing reading something with a clear warning. We'll never know. But, if the warning is there, the reader has no one but themselves to blame. And speaking just for me, if I was reading something and it ended or contained an unexpected character death, I'm not going to go and flame the author.

What I may do is remember that the next time I see the person's name. I can think of a few people who write consistently disturbing fic, very well written too. More power to them. But I've learned not to click.

Another point is that not everyone responds the same way to something either profound or disturbing or intense, or whatever word we might use for content that puts the reader's emotions through the wringer. It may seem oversensitive, but I know even as an adult, I've been severely affected by something I've read or heard or watched, both positively and negatively. I don't think it's fair to say as some do, "it's only a story" as though that were an excuse for being inconsiderate of others.

In regards to your question of PoA, as a matter of fact, I knew about Sirius before I read it. I was slow to get into the HP fandom and the book had been out for a few months before I read it. I took into account the fact that the book is intended for children so that the death could not be that haunting before deciding to read it. So, I guess you could say, I preferred it with spoilers than without. I was happy to know about it ahead of time so I could be prepared. Plus, I sort of think Sirius is a selfish immature twit in the book.

I agree with you that I may be missing out on profound things that could impact me in a positive way, change my life as you said. But, I'm not participating in fandom or in entertainment as a whole in order to be changed. I'm participating in it for entertainment, relaxation, to spend time not thinking about my real life which is intense.

Thank you for your comments. I appreciate the chance to think about why I feel as I do.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

And dead fish!

[booster17.livejournal.com]

Well, it was something I was thinking about this week, after I finished a short piece setting up Character A and Character B, and to do so I had to kill off Character B's girlfriend along the way. I was wondering whether to mention character death when I wrote up the summary, but ultimately decided against it as it would have spoiled how the story built.

But hey - I've decided to do that before with other ones I've written. Sleeper for example, I killed Buffy off in, but that was mainly for the effect on Xander and Faith's relationship. I think it all comes down to how the author feels - whether they want to build slowly to the point, or just smack you over the head with it at the appropriate time and place.

I'm reminded of an Alan Moore quote:
"As I see it, a successful story of any kind should be almost like hypnosis: You fascinate the reader with your first sentence, draw them in further with your second sentence and have them in a mild trance by the third. Then, being careful not to wake them, you carry them away up the back alleys of your narrative and when they are hopelessly lost within the story, having surrendered themselves to it, you do them terrible violence with a softball bat and then lead them whimpering to the exit on the last page. Believe me, they'll thank you for it."

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

Why subject myself to entertainment that pains me?

I think this is a key issue really.

I'm here to be entertained, and hopefully to entertain others. That's why it's called entertainment or a hobby or whatever.

If entertainment makes me grow as a person, gives me food for thought all the better, but I really don't want to be put through the wringer. That's not entertainment to me, that's self inflicted torture.

I don't get the pleasure some people get out of hurt/comfort or angst most of the time for this same reason. "OMG, they're suffering, isn't it great?" And I'm thinking, not really. LOL, I'm still in it for the porn most of the time. Usually when boys are getting off, they aren't dying. ;)

[booster17.livejournal.com]

Btw, and being totally nosy here, what was this HP fic that's started this? I'm curious to see what happened for myself.

[judas-iscariot.livejournal.com]

"Do you think character death warnings should be:" I picked other because of several reasons. I personally don't care if the author mentions that there is a character death or not. After all, it's only fan fiction, and it doesn't actually happen in the book. Not to mention the fact that I'm a sucker for angst. But, at the same time, I know that a lot of people go bat shit when people die in fan fics and respect their right to be informed if it will traumatize them to see their favorite character die. *shrug* So I guess in the end it doesn't really matter what I think and it is indeed up to the author to decide.

[judas-iscariot.livejournal.com]

Wow- who ever came up with the idea of a seperate link is brilliant. I certainly wouldn't have thought of it. I'll have to borrow that concept for future use. Thank you for bringing that option to my attention- it successfully respects the rights of both types of people.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

came over by way of the su_herald

I think a vague warning that there will be a character death is massively important in the warnings. It doesn't have to be all spelled out of who is going to die and how but, just a reference, that way the reader has a choice to decide if that is within their comfort levels. I don't think it ruins anything, if the reader is watching one of their characters die and thinks, "Oh! So this is what the header referred too." The author is doing something wrong.

For example: I had to put in a header of one of mine, "brother!kink", since a lot of people are squicked by it. But in my first chapter I do everything I can to avoid bringing that up, so that when it is revealed at the end it is a surprise. I know that a lot of people are not going to be surprised, but one person has commented that they got so wrapped up in the chapter that they did forget all about the brother angle and it was a surprise to them.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear! And I had no reason to worry that anyone reading it would have been upset about where the story went. If they read the headers, they know what they are getting, even if it isn't all the details. I treat character death the same way.